Hello from Kansas

[ict2842]

Hello All,

My name is Abraham and I am in Wichita, KS. I am new to FusionPBX. I have setup FreePBX but would like to try out FusionPBX for its multi-tenant and high availability features. I have migrated our family business from landlines to FreePBX and am currently working things out to have a local nonprofit switched as well. Afterwards I will work on migrating a few family friends' businesses over. I am doing all this voluntarily, with them paying for the SIP Trunking, hosting, and phones. FreePBX works great. I am wanting to move to FusionPBX because I would rather not manage several separate PBX instances. My first impressions of FusionPBX is that it isn't as "user friendly," but perhaps I just need more time with it.

I am currently a student working on three Associate's: Web Development, Cyber Security, and Internetworking Management. I have a few IT certifications. I'm not sure where I'll end up after college.

I am working to install FusionPBX on Ubuntu 18.04 now and make a dummy server for that nonprofit in order to test things out.
I would love to support FusionPBX, but a $1200/year minimum is too high. Taking out that I am not making money on this, not knowing if I will end up using it is really discouraging to sign up for it. Videos seems older, are there any great docs or tutorials on setting everything up?

 

[Adrian Fretwell]

Hi Abraham, and welcome!

You should get some friendly help here. It is a shame that the membership cost is a barrier for many. Even as a business we struggle to justify the $1200/year especially in the context of all the other donations we make to support the many other Open Source software products that we use for our VoIP platform.

Check out both the FusionPBX and FreeSWITCH documentation:
https://docs.fusionpbx.com/en/latest/
https://docs.fusionpbx.com/en/latest/getting_started.html
https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/Introduction
https://freeswitch.org/confluence/display/FREESWITCH/FreeSWITCH+Explained

Have fun!
Adrian.

 

[ict2842]

Thank you, Adrian.

 

[John]

It is a shame that the membership cost is a barrier for many. Even as a business we struggle to justify the $1200/year.

I cannot agree with you more, Adrian. Very good point. As a member, I cannot also justify $1,200/year, but since he is not sharing any information about the updates publicly and there is not a human readable changelog for none members, not paying that $1,200/year means that next time you update your Fusion you can end up with a non-working system. So we have to endure this until there is a better alternative. Funny thing is, you normally pay for support in open source projects. We are paying for change-log, and we are paying to report bugs and see the bugs. Continuing Education is just a fancy name for changelog.

From another perspective, this is an open source project, and we can fork it. However, so far there has not been a powerful community wanting to do that reliably, and the contributors are few. Everything is on one guy's shoulder. Even a powerful community could help him eliminate development cost. Why should he spend his family's time, endanger his health (which he did) and his family money for others' benefit?

In contrast, I wonder if he really wants a powerful community? A project that does not have a public bug list, no public bug reporting, and does not have a public changelog, cannot complain about a weak community. It seems this is what he hopes for.

It is really a dilemma and does not have a definite answer.

 

[ict2842]

Thank you John. My original intension was to host a few private PBXs. I've decided to look into the feasibility of offering VoIP services to local businesses and am trying to figure out how I'll price the service.

My current concept is running two DBs and two PBXs in Dallas as the primary location of operation with HA and tie it into BulkVS' SIP Trunking service (cheapest I have found, I am using it in my testing to ensure there is no lack of quality in service). I'll likely use Telnyx for SMS service and haven't looked at FAX yet, though I need to. I will setup another PBX and DB in New York for fail over. As for billing, I am thinking to go the ASTPP + WHMCS route unless there is a better option. There is still plenty for me to learn and setup, but I am slowly getting there. I'll likely setup the LLC in May and start the few domains for family & friends. I'll expand it from there. Any feedback on this from anybody would be greatly appreciated.

With that said, one of my priority expenses would be to buy into the $1200 and potentially upgrade when possible. I really wish it was lower so that I could support it sooner, whether or not I was making this into a business. Would you guys even recommend FusionPBX at all? I came across VitalPBX - the licensing is real high for someone starting out trying to keep cost barebones and I'd need two licenses to run HA (my understanding is its fail-over). I also understood I couldn't put a 3rd server in NYC for a fail over situation should Dallas go to hell. [More Info: I have two servers in Dallas. When the storm hit Dallas recently, it messed with network so bad VoIP would not be feasible. No power, no way to get fuel to generators, likely downed fiber lines, various network PoPs that likely ran on lower power, etc.]

 

[Adrian Fretwell]

I would recommend FusionPBX, we are trying to build a good community here and most people are happy to help if they can.

I do NOT use ANY non Open Source products for my VoIP platform and even though I am FusionPBX member, I will not use any of the closed source member only applications.

I'm sure you will get on fine with FusionPBX.

 

[PBXMePlz]

Hello from Kansas City!
We should definitely talk!

FusionPBX is user friendly when you know it, but there is a definite learning curve that you can overcome with time, once you have that time under your belt, you'll notice more and more that you like about it, there are aspects that the developer has thought about. As you bring on more businesses (if you do), if your prices are on par with most other businesses, you'll notice the $1200 a year becomes pretty easy. It's worth it to support the project, there's definitely difficulties in jumping levels though $100/mo to $300/mo is quite the leap, given the support hours included it makes sense though.

 

[DigitalDaz]

@John

In contrast, I wonder if he really wants a powerful community? A project that does not have a public bug list, no public bug reporting, and does not have a public changelog, cannot complain about a weak community. It seems this is what he hopes for.

There used to be a much more vibrant community on IRC. There were about 33 of us if I remember rightly with commit rights. Stable is where stable is and master we could do whatever we liked with and we did. People would be making commits, others would be checking and testing.

One day we got up and all this was gone.

We now just have to live with what we get but I completely agree with the person who said continuing education has become not much more than a changelog.

 

[PBXMePlz]

There used to be a much more vibrant community on IRC. There were about 33 of us if I remember rightly with commit rights. Stable is where stable is and master we could do whatever we liked with and we did. People would be making commits, others would be checking and testing.

One day we got up and all this was gone.

We now just have to live with what we get but I completely agree with the person who said continuing education has become not much more than a changelog.

Bumming me out here.
I thought Continuing Education has been a little bit of an improvement. Definitely a change-log/newsletter, but more organized and shorter (plus in general I'm supporting the project that supports me, so there's that). With the ability to ask questions though, you do get to learn a lot, and you are actively learning about the new features, not just "we implemented this thing, good luck".
The whole master/stable is definitely a little confusing. I'm guessing that is just a result of Master moving so far so fast past Stable that it became easier to make Master the new Stable, and Stable the new inactive.

I also think there's a world where this project is being pulled two directions by two opposing forces. One force wants to lower the barrier to entry, and one wants to raise the barrier to entry to avoid less people coming on board. I'm not saying that is for sure happening, I'm just saying the incentive is such that it wouldn't surprise me if it was. Honestly though I feel bad for anyone caught in the middle, because you either attempt to appease both parties in some balancing act that likely rivals trying not to choose sides in marriage counseling, or you pick a side and upset the other party.

 

[bcmike]

This thread makes me sad. I came from the Asterisk/FreePBX world and I really think that Freeswitch/Fusion is a superior product, but the community is small and that's a big deal when your run into a critical issue that's got you stumped at 3:00 am.

On the other hand I get that everyone has to make a living.

All that said the group on this forum is pretty good, and it's definitely an invaluable resource. Regarding membership, I have a membership but honestly sitting through hours of videos to get to the meat of what you want to know is a little bit useless to me. Some documentation and a knowledge base, along with the videos would make all the difference in the world.

 

[ict2842]

This. I have a family friend that uses 300K+ minutes a year- 80-90% of his business is done over the phone. He is ready to switch the second I have things setup and working. I have a nonprofit school who's staff are wanting to switch - I am still doing the whole feasibility analysis. My main concern from the start is ensuring my system(s) are running. My "customers" need the service to function and specifically for the school, need 911 working all day any day. My biggest fear right now is my system going down; whether hardware, FusionPBX, database, data center, etc.

I need to know there is someone with more experience and knowledge that I can turn to.

 

[Bifur]

One thing that would be nice is version releases. It seems everyone who has posted for help or suggestions are on a different system and things work totally different.

1200/year is to much fo me currently, but I hope not for long. I'm a bit disappointed to see that level of membership is mainly just a changelog and some extra videos.

Coming from FreePBX, I really like FusionPBX. It seems to work smoother in general even though it does take some getting use to. Everytime FreePBX had/has an update, something simple like ring groups, would become buggy. Maintaining 50+ systems also became disastrous with clients on various versions (12, 13, 14, 15), they all behave differently.

Thanks to everyone here who has pointed me in the right direction. I still have lots to learn but I think everyone benefits when we help each other. This project has so much potential and I hope it keeps going for years to come.

 

[Adrian Fretwell]

specifically for the school, need 911 working all day any day. My biggest fear right now is my system going down; whether hardware, FusionPBX, database, data center, etc.

I need to know there is someone with more experience and knowledge that I can turn to.

We run Emergency services here in the UK, everything is at least duplicated and have multiple points of backup spread across several data centres, not to mention geographically diverse points of access in to the UK core telephone network. But when you need to provide 24/7 support 356 days a year, it not all about what infrastructure you have or even what support contracts you have in place, it is more about you! If you are running this on your own, you cannot be there all the time, what about holidays or illness? If you are out of action who is going to diagnose and fix a problem?

What support you need will depend on what you need your platform to do and what Service Level Agreements (SLAs) you want to put in place with your customers. Make sure you build a small network of trusted people that you can call upon for help. There are a few on here that I trust. There are people on here that have support contracts not only with FusionPBX but with the FreeSWITCH team as well because they believe the complexity and size of their deployment warrants that level of support.

One of the key points that many overlook is that, in terms of support, it is not just about FusionPBX, there is FreeSWITCH as I have mentioned, but think about all the other software that your platform relies upon.

Having had bitter experience of relying on support for a closed source product from a company, I now realise that I prefer community led support and community supported products rather than something controlled by one closed organisation. It is for this reason that I fully support this forum and will continue to do so.

 

[sudoRmRf]

One thing that would be nice is version releases.

I hear this. I am on 4.4 still and really would like to have some of the features in master but my employer (and me to an extent) are uncomfortable running master on a prod system. Specifically I need the CDR archiving feature and I need the system to stop making giant CDR queries on login, both of which have been present since 2018 but still haven't been pushed to stable.

 

[Adrian Fretwell]

I hear this. I am on 4.4 still and really would like to have some of the features in master but my employer (and me to an extent) are uncomfortable running master on a prod system. Specifically I need the CDR archiving feature and I need the system to stop making giant CDR queries on login, both of which have been present since 2018 but still haven't been pushed to stable.

I've said it before, we do desperately need a new stable release. Helping people with FusionPBX issues has become very difficult because the software is in a state of continuous change. We are advised to install from master but changes are happening so quickly that even two installs a few hours apart can be different!

I installed from master for two production systems over a year ago, I really didn' tlike doing it. I find it hard to believe that we still don't have a production ready stable release. The Fusion staff list has now grown to 7, including someone responsible for marketing. Is a saleable product being prepared at the expense of delivering a stable release for the community?

 

[bcmike]

I hear this. I am on 4.4 still and really would like to have some of the features in master but my employer (and me to an extent) are uncomfortable running master on a prod system. Specifically I need the CDR archiving feature and I need the system to stop making giant CDR queries on login, both of which have been present since 2018 but still haven't been pushed to stable.

I run on 4.4 as well , mainly because the upgrade process terrifies me on production boxes.

 

[ict2842]

But when you need to provide 24/7 support 356 days a year, it not all about what infrastructure you have or even what support contracts you have in place, it is more about you!

In general, I do want to expand the support avenues and contracts. I just wish they were easier to get into than facing a mountain of fees. My knowledge is limited; I am quite new here and this forum along with any support contracts I obtain are what I would turn to when I have an issue.
And you are right. I cannot offer 24/7/365 support, nor do I want to right now: I simply cannot. However, if the system is down, I am up working to resolve it as soon as I am notified (HetrixTools).

You mentioned having the infrastructure as well. Here is what I am hoping I could setup...though I am not quite sure how to do it yet:
HA Across the Country | FusionPBX Forums

 

[John]

One day we got up and all this was gone.

When was that "one day" and what happened exactly?

 

[DigitalDaz]

Just as I said, it was probably about five years ago at least and we just found out we no longer had commit rights, the policy had now all changed. I don't think any of the devs around from those days are left.

 

[John]

Just as I said, it was probably about five years ago at least and we just found out we no longer had commit rights, the policy had now all changed. I don't think any of the devs around from those days are left.

Thanks for your reply!