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- Thread starter DigitalDaz
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@AIC2000 Clearly you are not up with the plot! 
We were originally fusionpbxforums.com but due to threats of legal action from the fusionpbx creator we had to change it.
For some as yet undetermined reason he is completely against these forums even though the sole reason for the creation was to promote fusionpbx and build a real community around it.
We were originally fusionpbxforums.com but due to threats of legal action from the fusionpbx creator we had to change it.
For some as yet undetermined reason he is completely against these forums even though the sole reason for the creation was to promote fusionpbx and build a real community around it.
Oh wow really, I assumed these were the official forums for some reason.@AIC2000 Clearly you are not up with the plot!
We were originally fusionpbxforums.com but due to threats of legal action from the fusionpbx creator we had to change it.
For some as yet undetermined reason he is completely against these forums even though the sole reason for the creation was to promote fusionpbx and build a real community around it.
Not that happy now I know it's a very 'closed' project - especially if the creator is dead against building a friendly community around it - crazy!
Don't worry its all here to stay for the long term, its actually a blessing in disguise as it allows me to branch out as I discover new things, I've been looking lately at something called Issabel which was forked from Elastix, that may have potential for single tenants.
We can get some real comparisons and debate going.
I want to spend more time on billing solutions etc. I'm just finishing a big project at the moment but that's gonna leve me much more time to concentrate on us in here
We can get some real comparisons and debate going.
I want to spend more time on billing solutions etc. I'm just finishing a big project at the moment but that's gonna leve me much more time to concentrate on us in here
PS A few of us pleaded for years for an official forum but it was rejected, I think that may change now due to the success of this one.
Just as an example of things that are coming, I'm currently rewriting a manual that I was given by someone, its over one hundred pages but the guy didn't want to rock the boat. I'm well and truly in the dog house anyway. I have a choice, I can abandon and shut down the forums and then I can do training classes etc or I can forego attending any classes and instead have to glean everything and document it from the source, I have chosen the latter.
Its actually in my commercial interest to do the former but I just can't, I am firmly of the belief that good documentation and a good community will bring about the wider adoption of fusionpbx in the long term.
There was a development recently that I really hoped was going to make things more accessible but what it actually did was to create an even bigger division than already existed.
This was the fusionpbx labelled 'continuing education program'. I believe it to work like this. To be on it you need to have completed one of the other classes and then its about $100 per month. These guys get all the new info etc but they cannot share it with others. This created an even bigger 'us and them' than already existed.
I was hoping this didn't have the requirement of the $1000 entry ticket to the club, ie one of the other classes, that would have helped at least bring it to more people. I've done all the classes by the way in earlier years, admin, advanced and developer.
One of the reason too for the upgrade is to turn it from just a flat forum into somewhere we can start adding new video tutorials etc. The best is yet to come
Its actually in my commercial interest to do the former but I just can't, I am firmly of the belief that good documentation and a good community will bring about the wider adoption of fusionpbx in the long term.
There was a development recently that I really hoped was going to make things more accessible but what it actually did was to create an even bigger division than already existed.
This was the fusionpbx labelled 'continuing education program'. I believe it to work like this. To be on it you need to have completed one of the other classes and then its about $100 per month. These guys get all the new info etc but they cannot share it with others. This created an even bigger 'us and them' than already existed.
I was hoping this didn't have the requirement of the $1000 entry ticket to the club, ie one of the other classes, that would have helped at least bring it to more people. I've done all the classes by the way in earlier years, admin, advanced and developer.
One of the reason too for the upgrade is to turn it from just a flat forum into somewhere we can start adding new video tutorials etc. The best is yet to come
As a member of continuing education, I don't like the way you are identifying it. I have all of my employees as members of cont. edu. so that I do not have to train them on certain stuff when I am out of the office. It is a good way to learn, bring up a annoying issue you are having and getting the full attention of everyone on the call. I see it almost like Freeswitch consulting. More importantly I am helping with the project, I know that buying this subscription to this class I am helping the developers make fusion better. I know that the developer has sacrificed a lot of their time and money to make this project, I'm sure family time got sacrificed too. And I myself am making a profit from it in my business. Why would I not give back to the project that has helped me and my family earn a living. I cannot be the only one out there making money off Fusion/Freeswitch. Nothing in the world is free, I think everyone knows that.
So disregarding your position on it, what bit have I said that isn't true? I'm not saying for one minute that its not of value, I'm sure its worth every penny.
What I'm saying is it creates a clear divide in the community, the haves and the have nots.
Look at it from my point of view, I sit in IRC all day increasingly helping people who have knowledge that I am not party to and will not share it with me.
We have people who have written manuals that cannot post them because of the fear of the repercussions that it will bring, its a ridiculous state of affairs, I've also been criticised for documenting what I have found in the source code.
What as me making money got to do with ANYTHING? The more I see things like this the more I also see that more and more people just have not concept of what open source is.
Do you realise what open source is? Do you understand that even asking for someones email address is a violation of it?
I see you addressed nothing of the points above.
And with regard to whether I make money of it or not, how much do I put back into the project? How may days can you count in the last five years when I haven't helped people in IRC? I don't know how much I have made from fusionpbx but it is very little, the majority of my business is still sip trunking, what I'm absolutely certain of is I'm well quids in in terms of what I believe I have given back to the community.
You are saying that you cannot help people in IRC because you are not privy to the new information, you could have that info if you took the class. The info to work fusion and get a pbx up and going are right there in front of you. But if you want HA and branding why not pay for something like that? What info have people asked you that you cannot answer just by being a fusion user and running into those problems yourself that you have learned from.
I do not have the problems, I have taken all three classes, admin twice, I made a decision to stop taking classes when I realised that I could not help take the project forward in the way I believe it needs and that's by good documentation and helping those with problems who I wish to help.
We will go around in circles here though, the project is open source and I will not be bullied into stopping documenting an open source project and if we are getting our cards out on the table, that's why there is such fierce opposition to these forums.
If FusionPBX were commercial, I would probably pay for it, if there were commercial modules, I would probably buy them but the simple fact is, its open source.
Which bit of acting in an open source spirit am I not doing? In many other projects the non-programmers test, help others and document, that's their way of giving back and that's exactly what I try to do on a daily basis.
Right at the beginning I said it is not in my commercial interest to take this stance but I continue to do so because it is the opensource thing to do.
If I wanted bleed it dry I would shut down the forums, do every class I can and then stick it to these guys all around and draw their $$$.
Where would FusionPBX be without the well documented open source software like Nginx, Postgres, FreeSwitch, Memcached to name but a few?
If any of the above projects took the same attitude to the documentation and support as FusionPBX, FusionPBX itself would not be possible.
We will go around in circles here though, the project is open source and I will not be bullied into stopping documenting an open source project and if we are getting our cards out on the table, that's why there is such fierce opposition to these forums.
If FusionPBX were commercial, I would probably pay for it, if there were commercial modules, I would probably buy them but the simple fact is, its open source.
Which bit of acting in an open source spirit am I not doing? In many other projects the non-programmers test, help others and document, that's their way of giving back and that's exactly what I try to do on a daily basis.
Right at the beginning I said it is not in my commercial interest to take this stance but I continue to do so because it is the opensource thing to do.
If I wanted bleed it dry I would shut down the forums, do every class I can and then stick it to these guys all around and draw their $$$.
Where would FusionPBX be without the well documented open source software like Nginx, Postgres, FreeSwitch, Memcached to name but a few?
If any of the above projects took the same attitude to the documentation and support as FusionPBX, FusionPBX itself would not be possible.
That isn't what he is saying (i don't think). He is saying (I think) that it's kinda a BS to firmly build in inequity between the community members. And the inequity is not introduced merely by having the continuing ed program, its to make that requirement on previously having taken the courses. Here's this great asset, and you can learn a lot about new stuff thats crept up, but not unless you take one of the previous classes. Additionally, to prevent the sharing of information within the community - I recall we used to get admonished for talking about BDR with other people in my class, all of us having paid thousands for classes already. What I do with the information after I have paid for it, should be for me to decide.
The cult of personality that crept up is unnerving too. Disagree and catch a ban. Offer a counter argument, you are hurting the project. I wish like hell people weren't such babies and could accept criticism and look to make improvements where possible, not as an effort to get people to stop complaining.
To the point about being privy, Digi isn't saying he cant help, at least that is not how I read it. I think he is saying he helps (tons of people every day) in spite of not being privy to that information, and knows full well that those who are in that course cannot share information willingly or otherwise. That trend kinda runs counter to long standing open source ideals. If you have been around it for a while, you should know exactly what I mean, and offering examples of other products that flout that, does not devalue those original ideals.
I am fine if you think I am wrong, and I don't begrudge you for taking the class. I know I wont for the reasons that have mentioned, unless some attention and effort is put forth to assuage those objections.
The cult of personality that crept up is unnerving too. Disagree and catch a ban. Offer a counter argument, you are hurting the project. I wish like hell people weren't such babies and could accept criticism and look to make improvements where possible, not as an effort to get people to stop complaining.
To the point about being privy, Digi isn't saying he cant help, at least that is not how I read it. I think he is saying he helps (tons of people every day) in spite of not being privy to that information, and knows full well that those who are in that course cannot share information willingly or otherwise. That trend kinda runs counter to long standing open source ideals. If you have been around it for a while, you should know exactly what I mean, and offering examples of other products that flout that, does not devalue those original ideals.
I am fine if you think I am wrong, and I don't begrudge you for taking the class. I know I wont for the reasons that have mentioned, unless some attention and effort is put forth to assuage those objections.
I think this situation is because of special business plan mcrane has. I guess mcrane is satisfied with current user numbers increasing rate, current cache flow and current number of other developers. Any change in these factores not guaranteed to bring better business plan for him and I understand him
I'm just saying that I think the project would've came to a halt if these steps to bring in money to fund the time spent on development weren't taken. I don't want the project to be defunded and go stale just because of the opinion we have on open source and how the project should be ran. I care too much about fusion and the time spent by developers. I care for ya'll as the community too, whatever I have to do to contribute to keep fusion going I am going to do my best to see to it.
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